This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
Welcome to the Nail Hub Podcast, powered by Nails Magazine, where you'll find all the business advice, motivation, and nail industry information you need to be a successful nail professional. I'm Elizabeth Morris and thank you for joining me today. Today, I have the pleasure of talking with Beth Livesay from NAILS Magazine. She's the executive editor of the awesome nail magazine that we all love.
Elizabeth: Is this the first time you've ever done this type of salon tour or how did this get started?
Beth: Yes. So Cindy our VP, our group publisher, literally came to me and was like, "What if we try to see how many salons we could visit in a week?" I said, "That'd be really, really cool." And then I said you know, "Where?" Because in California it's very dense in terms of salons, and I could spend a week and not go very far. I could go down the street and I probably wouldn't go through all the salon that we have. But if you're going somewhere else...If you're going to Montana you know, you probably going like all four corners of that state and maybe bleeding into another state to go see more salons. I was really concerned about the reach and like the true sampling of salons to be able to get to. And she said, "No, you should try and get as far as you can."
Elizabeth: Wow, that's so cool.
Beth: I know, and I love the creativity you know, the ideas that people have here at "NAILS Magazine." I think we have really creative stuff, and this just speaks to that. But yeah, my goal was coast to coast if possible. And so at first I was like, you know take a train that'd be really fun, but train travel, while economical, is just not always practical. And you still kinda have to do a couple of things to get from a hotel if you need a hotel. You boarded that hotel from the train, train drops you like 3 a.m. in Utah. You know, like these random things. So I didn't bother with the train, maybe next time. But yeah, so I was able to do it where it was a mix of driving and flying, and I did it from Northern California all the way to the East Coast to Washington D.C.
Elizabeth: Oh my gosh, that's insane. And you're still alive.
Beth: I know, but it took me a while to recuperate because this was a month ago. So it took me a while, but it was eight days of actual salon visits. There's like ten days of traveling. So, it was a lot and there was a lot of being away from here and you know you're going to a different place every day. So it was ambitious. And I'm glad it's over sometimes, but it was really cool. And I think it'd be fun to do another one in a different region or maybe if different editors did them in different regions.
Elizabeth: Yeah, so how did you pick the salons you visited?
Beth: That's a good question, and honestly that was one of the biggest challenges for me. Because that kind of dictated where I was going. I had an intern over the summer who I tasked with finding salons. I said look at our site as a resource and I said you know, look at social media as a resource. She came up with this list, and then I was able to kind of pick and choose from this list that she made. And then if I was able to find an affordable flight from one area to the next. So for example, Omaha was an easy route for me to take because I already knew two nail techs in Omaha. Of course, Buddy's the first person who pops into my mind, and I knew Buddy had just opened a salon. So I reached out to him and he was great. He set everything up for visiting them and for doing lunch with his staff, which I felt was so great because it wasn't just a service. You know it was really getting down and breaking bread with all these professionals and really talking about hair and nails and running the business in Omaha. And then I knew Eva Jenkins is near Omaha, and sure enough, the distance worked out. And then a lot of the visits I did were impromptu. So while I was in Omaha, for example, both Buddy and Eva were like, "You have to go to Chill Body. It's this new salon. It's in Omaha. It's not too far. We know the owner." And Buddy called, and he's like, "Yeah." He's said, "I called I told them you're coming. Just go over there if you have two minutes."
But for the most part, these visits were appointment-based, and I gave people fair warning you know, it doesn't mean that I always got meet the owner, the manager, they weren't all necessarily there, but that's okay, I got to see the salon and that was the important thing. I was just trying to be as courteous as possible.
Elizabeth: So what were some of your biggest takeaways? But you're kind of just coming at from you know, getting to know the salons, getting to know the nail techs, kind of research and understanding you know, the "NAIL Magazine" readers a little bit better. So what were some of like, what were some of the highlights and what were some of the low lights or what were some of the things that you kind of learned through this process?
Beth: So I'm kind of going to go to go through the notes I shared with my team. So, I went to two salonsin Northern California that were rented in rooms in houses. And that's not to say that that's where the nail techs lived, but it was more like a sweet setup except in a house. So it was kinda different, and I don't know if that's because of the area because they have all these cool Victorian homes up north or what. But yeah, there were two salons, and I just thought that was interesting. And kinda comforting because you're...It's like you're going to a house, but also it's not where they live. So you're a little bit more relaxed, and they had different businesses in the other rooms. So you got kinda like a salon suite, but more like, in a home setting. And then I went to three actual home studios. And you know, I thought the motivation's for each of these techs to have a home studio were each interesting. You know, one tech was a mom, so she's like, of course for me you know, this is natural. And she had a mud room which being from California I'm like, "What's a mud room?" She had a mud room, and that's where she had her salon, and I just think it worked out really nicely. You know, and then another tech was telling me it was just easier to have the home-based salon because even though it's in the same city as the salon she had previously worked in she made more money by operating out of her home. Just because of the 15-minute drive, the geographic, the sheer geographic difference. She was able to make more money by taking clients in her home than she ever did having that kind of clientele that came to the salon. So all these really interesting differences out of working from home. Waxing was the most common additional offering after nail services. Almost every salon had waxing. Gel-polish manicures were by far what everybody said was their most popular. You know, in nails our research shows that pedicures typically are the most popular service, but out of all the places, I went to it was gel manicures. I actually noticed that I think four of the techs I visited said they don't even use lacquer anymore. Like it's just not an option.
Elizabeth: Yeah, I mean that's kinda one of the things that...That's interesting to hear that feedback too. Because I feel like nail polish is one of those things that has stayed at the forefront of the industry, but when it comes to services, it is a little bit of a challenge because it just doesn't have the same longevity and you know, you have the dry time and stuff like that.
Beth: Agreed. And then let's see...Nail art, it's funny. Nail art was I felt like acceptable everywhere. You know there were some nail salons who did it. But I felt like Denver was not, just not so much. And I thought that was funny because Denver was such an artistic town. Like, there's all that wall art, but yeah just not so much nail art. And then also in Washington D.C. not so much. But I attributed that to the clientele. You know, a lot of politicians or people with very, very professional jobs so probably not people who'd rock nail art everywhere.Our readers still read print. A lot of them had it which made me feel even better.
Elizabeth: Yeah, that's amazing. Especially because most people would say, "Oh, everything's going digital. You know, this print advertising and stuff." It actually...I think it does have a place. I have mine. I look forward to my "NAILS Magazine" in the mail every time.
Beth: Yeah, yeah, and it doesn't mean that you don't read our content in other forums. The Nail Purist in Sacramento, she's like, "I just got my digital edition today." And that's really cool. So she's like super clued in on when her digital edition arrives. And like, they all probably read the digital edition too, but they wanna read their print and of course, they look at what we do on social. But yeah, it was just nice, like you're saying that print has that place and they all kind of acknowledged it. I asked the techs who were working in smaller spaces or renting a room or whatever, I said, "Do you feel isolated? Or who do you talk shop with like, about nails if you don't work in a salon?" And they were saying this day and age like they just don't ever feel isolated because with social media that's kind of where they can do all their networking. And especially for these people who live in areas where there aren't shows. They don't have the luxury of going to a show to the networking that the rest of us you know, the rest of us really get to enjoy when we go out a big trade show and we can see everybody and have these reunions. So they kind of rely entirely online to have those interactions which I thought you know, was the good point because I think sometimes we hear you feel isolated if you're working alone. But the people I saw on this trip, they don't. They don't feel the loss so much of things like that. Not to say that they wouldn't want to go to a networking event, but you know, they're still getting their daily dose of nail tech interaction. Even though they're not working with those people at a salon.
Beth: Okay, so talking social media with these people...so Instagram, is hands down the most favorite platform. They say that they're not only on it, but these techs say this is how their clients find them. And that's actually what the intern I had did to find some of these salons. So these like geo-friendly hashtags are you know, raking in clients for them. So for example, #OmahaNails you know, that's how a client in Omaha finds that salon or that nail technician and these techs now that they need to use that tag to get their name out there. Eva Jenkins in Omaha said Instagram is actually what got her back into doing nails. She was working at a bank. She gave up doing nails, and then when Instagram came out, she was just so blown away by everything she was seeing. She said, "I got to get back into nails." And it pulled her back in. And then they're all saying Twitter is just not something that they use, which I thought was interesting.
Overall, a hunger though for education, I mean, I feel like I hear this a lot. You know, everybody wants to learn more because after school they felt wanting a little bit, so you know, a lot of them looked at their dealers for education. But in a lot of regions, they end up canceling the events for things like dealer education.There's a cost factor that comes with traveling to a show to take the class. But you know, that's something I think that we as part of the publishing industry we need to figure that out. What can we offer to help people get educated? Maybe it's not a show setting? I don't know. We have to be creative with that. But yeah, everybody wants to learn. And that makes me feel hopeful as well because I think the magazine is all about education. I think the videos we do, the techniques we do, what you do as a podcast. It's all about feeding that education. So I feel like we're on the right track by doing really meaty content and you know, having those great articles that try to feed that thirst for knowledge.
Elizabeth: I love all of this. Yeah, this is really cool. So I wanted to ask you would you say that the thirst for education, for example, would you say that they had feedback about like what worked well for them and what didn't? As far as like maybe they had tried continuing education in the past but maybe they had traveled really far, and it didn't quite worked out the way they wanted. Or what would you say their kind of sentiment is on how that's been going for them?
Beth: Yeah, so two stories stick out in my mind. I know the group in Omaha was saying that they do a lot of training together in salon settings. So Buddy, you know, will go to a salon and will train with Tatz and another nail tech who maybe works independently will go to a salon for the day to train with them. So it seems like that works well in that particular location because there isn't an Omaha trade show for nails. But, I was also hearing from one of the techs who lived in that area that Salon Centric used to do a networking event or something like that, and you had to buy a ticket and it was a lot of money she said for this ticket and then she went and there was no one there who was a nail tech.
Elizabeth: Yeah, but that's a good point. I would also say that when it comes to stuff like that, education, networking, product knowledge, you know, product exposure, it's really hard to get that when it's not segmented into just nails because we don't talk shop with hair people because a lot of us don't do hair, right?
Beth: So yeah, also in the East Coast there was like the same thing where the salon, the nail techs were saying we kinda like do training together in salon settings. It almost seemed like that was more comfortable than just going down by yourself to the dealer.
Elizabeth: And in some of these smaller areas they didn't feel like it was because I've also gotten feedback from some people where if they're in a smaller setting sometimes there's also the feeling of I don't necessarily want to take a group class with other people that work in my town because they're my competition, so I'm learning next to my competition. Did you get any feelings about that?
Beth: You know it's funny, one of the editors here asked me that and I said, "You know, really I don't know people are just on their best behavior because I was talking to them. But no, no one talked that way about competition." And I asked them outright. I said, "How many salons are near you, like in this area." Almost everyone went like "There's maybe 15 right down the street. Yeah, there's a bunch over here." But then that was kind of it. So for example in Columbus, Ohio, not the case. But you know, they never like mentioned that competitiveness or like training together means we're depleting our client list.
Elizabeth: That is cool.
Beth: A lot of professionalism that I personally witnessed which made me very, very hopeful.
Elizabeth: Yeah, plus some of the nail techs you visited in the salons you visited that sounds like they were also saying, "Hey, you should go check out this place and that place."
Beth: Exactly. I felt a lot of camaraderie in that regard. A lot of salons are saying they want to be organic, green, and vegan. You know, all that good stuff. A lot of them like having that spin. Not as much dip powder as I expected to see. A couple of the salons did have it and they were saying for them they felt like it was more sanitary. But, not as much as I would have thought based on the stuff I see coming on my desk.
Elizabeth: Yeah, that's the part that I think it's interesting because I feel like when we go to trade shows you kind of get a little bit of a sense of, "Oh, this is really like popular, right? And then you go out and visit these salons and you're like, "Well that's not as popular as I thought it was. Or this was really popular, and I never even thought about that."
Beth: Right, I feel like when you go to a trade show you get a trade show lens where you see the world through what you see at the trade show. And it's kind of refreshing to then come into the real world and go wow if the trade show floor looked like what I saw on this particular tour to these particular regions, it'd be completely different.
A couple of salons stocked nail product, and when I say nail product I mean lacquer of course, for people purely because they knew the maker of that lacquer. So it wasn't about like, "Okay, I'm gonna choose OPI because it's the most widely recognized lacquer name."
Elizabeth: Oh, that's cool.
Beth: A couple of interesting notes about like just anything local, handmade like you know, for retail especially like scrubs, lotions, I think salon owners like offering things that are indicative of where you are and where did your clients come from. You know, that homey feeling. A couple of the salons were actually people's homes, and then ones that weren't, they still offered that like hometown feeling by what they're offering. Yeah, and I feel like that's kind of a lot of it. I got offered a Patrón pedicure.
Elizabeth: Like as in tequila?
Beth: As in tequila and I love Patrón.
Elizabeth: That's amazing. They actually give tequila, like, infused pedicures or like, how does that work?
Beth: Yes, but they were out of the Patrón when I went so I settled for a champagne paraffin. So it's really interesting like they poured the champagne in the paraffin wax, and then you put your feet in there, and I mean it felt great.
Elizabeth: That sounds really cool.
Beth: It was really cool. I definitely give them points for marketing.
Elizabeth: And it has a nice ring to it: The Patrón pedicure.
Beth: I know. So you know, creative marketing ideas were seen all over. You know, just a really, really cool time to just hang out with people outside of the office and outside of a busy, buzzy, trade show and be real with them and see where they work. And how their lives are in their hometown and I wished we could've videotaped the whole thing.
Elizabeth: Yeah, oh my god that would've been like an amazing kind of documentary or something, you know what I mean, to follow. Maybe next time we'll set it up. We'll have like film crew and the whole thing, and make like a documentary with it. Because I think this is the probably one of the coolest experiences I've heard of to date in the nail industry. Of actually hitting the pavement and I mean props to you for actually physically going and doing all of this because I know travel can be brutal.
Beth: Oh yeah. I left the day that hurricane Irma was gonna hit the East Coast, but I was flying to Northern California. That's where I started. Our offices are seven miles from LAX. So I left here you know, with plenty of time to get to LAX. Get to LAX and they tell me my flight's delayed an hour. And I'm like okay, that's fine. By the time I left to go to actually get on a plane to go up North, my plane had been delayed like, five hours. I mean it was so bad. The whole terminal was just messed up because of the hurricane on the other coast. It got off to a rather rough start. But at the end of the day it worked out and you know, there weren't too many travel snafus.
Elizabeth: I think there's nothing better than hitting the pavement and like you said, getting to know the readers, getting to know what everyone's up to and we look at things through a very specific lens. Even through social media, I feel like what you're saying, Instagram is so big, right? But I feel like we often get a certain perspective of what reality is through those different types of platforms, and then going and seeing it first hand and experiencing it with people, I think is just something that is so unique. I mean that's very cool.
Beth: Right, because I feel like you almost lose touch with reality the more you sit on social media. I mean that's how I feel, and you know what's funny is the things that do well on the NAILS Magazine Instagram page for example, so coffin nails, like beautifully-shaped almond nails, stilettos with ombres and artwork, the fluffy backgrounds, those are the things that do really well on our page, but the salons I went to for the most part that is not what they do at all. Their client is a woman who comes in for her gel manicure every two weeks.
Elizabeth: Well, yeah I think that's important for nail techs to know because I feel like a lot of nail techs and even people who are starting out in this industry are maybe people who aren't as heavy on the artistic side. You know, they prefer clean, plain, one-color nails and they wanna specialize in that, but they felt guilty because they see all of this amazing nail art on social media. I feel like that's very refreshing to hear that, hey you don't have to be putting you know, all these chains and embedded stuff and whatever all over people's nails. Like you can actually make a very successful business out of cookie-cutter nails, right?
Beth: Exactly. And there are people who were very successful on this tour. They knew what they wanted to do in terms of a business. They do it. They do it well, and that's that. And they go if they have the opportunity to go learn something or go to a trade show, they take it maybe, but you know, they're really honing in on consistently charging the right price, doing their service in the right amount of time, and doing it healthily, and that's kind of it, you know. And then that's that, and when you're focused like that, you can afford to do a really good job. You're not trying to offer a million and one things at once.
Elizabeth: You're specialized which I think...that's the key. If you're listening that's the key, specialize. No, that's so cool. I love that there's actually proof to that because that's also something I tell people a lot which is, don't feel like you have to be like everybody else. Find what speaks to you and what works well for you, and it's all about your local market at the end of the day. People who are getting their nails done in Omaha aren't like people in Denver, you know.
Beth: Exactly, because if you're in Denver...and the two salons I happened to go to just don't really do nail art. And those two salons were well-oiled machines. I mean Tootsies, which is super cool, and they had a whole art exhibit while I was there, they are jam-packed. The owner said she can't even get in, usually to get her nails done. Actually, I interviewed her. We were both getting pedicures and I said, "That's cool. You're getting pedicures with me." She's like, "I can't get in otherwise." She's like, "We're so busy." And when I was there, I saw them turn away maybe like four people. Like, mixture of phone and walk in. They're open all the time. They do it well. They have their regulars. If you do nail art, you're gonna have a whole separate clientele in that area. But yeah, it was a great exercise in specialization.
Elizabeth: I'm sure you're gonna be obviously writing some stuff about this in the print, right?
Beth: Yes, January.
Elizabeth: Awesome, so January we can expect a full report in the print edition. But, I'm curious I mean just your personal thoughts I mean... What would you say if you were to take this experience and everything you've learned from these salons and these nail technicians and you were to boil it down to maybe a piece of advice or a couple pieces of advice. What would you say? I mean what kind of things would you suggest that you know, are success tricks or things that you think would be helpful to everyone to know?
Beth: I think the first one is definitely specialization. Edit yourself. We can have a million great ideas, but guess what? We can't do things in one year. So as NAILS Magazine we edit it down to five. We have five big initiatives, and I think some years maybe even three. We have to simplify it to make our goals achievable. And it's the same if you're a salon owner or you're a nail technician. If you want to do session work, that's great. But you know, don't try to do session work and maybe like run a salon and maybe do "Next Top Nail Artist." That's a lot. You don't have to do everything at once. Clients are very understanding. That's something I've learned from this tour. I know we've all had the pain in the ass clients, or maybe the client you have to fire, but when I was on this tour, I didn't see one person talking down or raising hell to their nail technician. Like, everyone was super-understanding and loved that relationship they had with their nail tech.
The number two take away I would say would be to get creative. I felt like I saw so many different personalities. And I think it's okay to want to carve that out for yourself. So we were saying you know, one place did a Patrón pedicure. So that's a signature service you could do. You know, that's a customizable service that you offer. It could be seasonal. It might be something that you do in the summer because it's pedicure, but it can also be year round. It could be something celebratory. But you know, there's a lot of different ways to mix it up. A lot of the salons had beautiful photography in them. I remember asking the salon owners like who took the photos? And they're like, "Oh, local photographer. The pictures are for sale." You know, it's like anything that wasn't nailed down on the salon was for sale. Tootsie's had an art exhibit in their salon, and they're kind of like vintage almost, a retro-chic salon.Don't be afraid to choose different identities for different things. If you have these unique way of expressing yourself, just go for it. You're gonna stand out to your client. I mean, these people are standing out to me. I was there a month ago. So don't be afraid of that.
Elizabeth: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it sticks to your mind better when you can remember hey, they had this specific thing. This is what made them kinda special. It could be something also like you said, their specialization can make them special which is they don't offer the world, they only offer what they're really, really good at doing, and that almost makes them more memorable than a salon that offers everything under the sun. That's really good advice, and I think you're probably one of the few people that's ever said that on the podcast.
Beth: Nice, good. I'm glad.
Elizabeth: No, so cool. I'm really excited to read about this in January, and I can't wait to see what else you know, you discovered and see...I'm sure you took some pictures.
Elizabeth: And interviews and stuff like that.
Beth: And the whole thing is online. So it's at www.nailsmag.com/salonfanatictour. You'll see there's a photo gallery and blogs; I blogged from the road while I was out the best I could remotely with spotty Wi-Fi and things from my iPhone. So there's that online. Yeah, we just hoped to keep talking about this more and more and you know, I felt like I just went over everything really quickly but online there are really great details. There's the photos, and you know, there's so many great personal stories of all the people I met, and I didn't mean to gloss over anybody if I did.
Elizabeth: It's hard to mention every single moment of a trip like that. I mean it's a probably a whirlwind tour, but I think it's important also to highlight like why certain things are memorable in your mind , and you think you did a good job of identifying that, right? Beth: Yes, thank you.
Elizabeth: And oh, I just saw...so I'm actually on my computer right now. I'm sorting things stuff out. Oh, I love all the pictures. This is so cool.
Beth: It's really fun. Every day I would like screen cap that map.
Elizabeth: And just all the different styles and the...I mean just looking at the salons and all the different ways that they do things. I think that's so cool. That's what I love about this industry is that there really is no kind of cookie-cutter way to do things. I mean we all strive for high-quality nail services, but like one of these salons like they have their family photos in here, which I love.
Beth: Yeah, and I guess you know, that's the other thing that I would say to your listeners is you know, I think, and in the magazine, we talk a lot about going to other salons as maybe like shopping the competition, and I would say just go to another salon. Like you don't have to think about it as like shopping the competition. Just go out there and see what's out there. I mean, you never know. Just see what the people do in your neighborhood. At the very least maybe it'll give you someone else to kinda talk shop with and network with. You know, especially if you don't have a show or networking event to go to. They may actually just become a good person to refer people to you or vice versa. Just don't be afraid to go knock on your neighbor's door and say, "What's up?"
Elizabeth: I think that's very true. I mean that's been my experience. Anytime I tell a fellow nail tech, I'm a nail tech, immediately they're like, "Oh my gosh, you're my people." And they wanna talk with me and talk shop.
Beth: That's what I find too. When I say I'm from NAILS Magazine they got really excited, and they have a lot of questions because you know, especially in some of these places they don't meet other people from the industry in California. So yeah, I think more often than not, people get really happy, and they don't see you as a competitor. I completely agree with that.
Elizabeth: I think that's fantastic. Well, I can't wait to read about this. I'm definitely gonna scope out all the pictures online. I think that's awesome, and I just love that you took the time...I mean not many people would take the time away from their busy schedule to actually go and do this and kind of find a more authentic way to interact with the people that you're trying to create for. I mean, your whole job centers around how can I give people the most relevant, amazing, information? And what better way to do that than go out and ask them?
Beth: Thank you. One of our goals in doing this tour is we wanted to put our money where our mouth is. We wanted to prove that we know our readers. I always say, "You know, if you wanna email me anything, a question, a concern,you could always email me. I'm not a difficult person to get a hold of. I have a very open door policy when it comes to email and phone and all that and social media. So you can always reach out to me." And I feel like this is just never been more apparent than me showing up at these 18 salons at their door or in their homes. We really care about our readers, we care about the future of the nail industry and the publishing industry, and I just wanted to thank everybody who chatted with me, who came out to see me, who let me sit in their chair. It was a phenomenal time.
Elizabeth: Oh, that's so cool. What a memorable experience, I feel like those are the experiences that really make this industry so unique and worthwhile. And almost like refresh your passion for being here in the first place is realizing that we get sucked into work, we get busy. Sometimes things are harder than other times, but when you actually take a moment to step back and kind of look at the whole industry and how people can connect and interact, I feel like it almost refreshes that whole reason for living in the nail industry type of feeling, right? Which is super cool.
Beth: And there were so many people who reached out via social media and email who were like, "Can you come here? You should come visit me?" I feel like it brought everybody together and not necessarily just the people I visited on the tour. Hopefully, I made everybody feel like we really do care, really do listen to you. We have an "On The Road." It's toward the front of the magazine, and it features a staff member at "NAILS" going for a nail service somewhere, anywhere in the world, really. And we always kept that in the magazine because we wanted to show that people who are getting nails, they do go out. They do really get nail services. We don't just talk about nails. We go out there and we live and breathe it, and you know, this is kind of that to the extreme. We go to as many salons as possible. We really do.
Elizabeth: I love it. I absolutely love it. I couldn't think of something cooler.
Beth: Thank you. I thought you'd appreciate it.
Elizabeth: I do. I appreciate it a lot because this is the kind of thing that I really enjoy, and I love. For me also it's a learning opportunity because I love hearing the feedback and the information that you gathered. I just think it's such a cool thing to start and then do you think you guys are gonna be making this like an annual thing?
Beth: I don't know. I'd like to. I mean I also think too, the things we found are true for where we went, but I think a different region would be interesting to compare to.
Elizabeth: Yeah, thank you so much for taking some time out of your day to be on the podcast and share this experience. I think this is something that a lot of people are gonna really enjoy listening to.
This is Elizabeth Morris, signing off from The Nail Hub. This podcast is sponsored by NAILS Magazine, the professional nail industry's leading publication. Have a suggestion, question, or concern? Send me an email at firstname.lastname@example.org. And don't forget to follow me on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at The Nail Hub and check out The Nail Hub YouTube channelfor more episodes and tutorials. Want customized business consulting, access to classes, amazing products and more? Visit thenailhub.com and check out all the wonderful things we provide. Our goal is to help you reach your ultimate potential. Thanks for listening and I'll catch you in the next episode.